medical care in G.C

[claire1011]

Hi was wondering about the medical care in Gran Canaria,if we were to need an operation or to visit a doctor when we are living out there can you advise me on procedure and costs.

Would it be advisable to get private Healthcare ie bupa etc????

Thanks for any info
Claire x

[shirley]

Well this is one for mary.
but generaly speaking, if you work here and pay your stamp so to speak.you will have everything on the state, excellent state hospitals.
But can be a looong wait through the state system for referal , to specialists That is the downside, if you think its serious, So i advise private insurance, BUT NOT MAPRE, increasingly they dont seem to be up to much on medical insurance, my man has been told a few places .We dont take mapfre. So he is going to change to the one marys clinic takes.mapre are ok on other insurance car wise so im advised.on this island.They are Mexico based and there website is a bit iffy on the medical side of things here (telling you to check first.that even though it says in there medical book that they take mapfre at certain clinics that they might nOt any more).And even though hes paid through the bank his 3 monthly fee. This time he has not recieved his new medical card.So we have to change now after 5 years of paying into this co.Bit of a nuisance when you are let down like this. But there you go.

[redswanlady]

Definatly need to PM mary she's the expert:thumb:

[shirley]

Absolutely redswanlady.
Mary is probably the only true qualified RGN. in any clinic.Here most use auxiliarys and just train them up to know how to do injections, That s what ive heard anyway. And lets face it qualified nurses can sometimes spot things that the patient hasnt spotted in themselves anyway.
ONE HAS TO LOOK AFTER ONESELF HERE. Only go to fully qualified people like you do in england.

[mary]

Oooh goody. My specialist subject!!!

If you are legal here, have a residencia and social security number etc, then you can use the state - some good reports, some bad from there. Just dont expect the same deal as you would have in the UK. Some top class doctors here and well equipped hospitals. No, community care though - none at all to speak off for new mums, elderly and in between.

Lots of private clinics - Mapfre is accepted by less and less places as Shirley says. DKV is another or BUPA or Owen uses one - cant remember the name.
It doesnt really matter - find a doctor you like and talk it through with him. We dont sell insurance and sometimes I feel you would be just as well putting 50 euros a month each, into a bank account saving for that rainy day.

We charge 50 euros for a first visit (includes full history and examination etc), then 35 - 45 euros per visit after that. Less for kids. Dr Paul was a GP in the UK and I was practice nurse before we moved over. My speciality was elderly care.

Insurance- depending on age - is about 60 euros per month per head. This goes up with age. Doesnt include medications and some tests are excluded.

I dont have a problem with the NHS here and we try and work with it as much as possible.
I hope that helps and pm me if I can be any more help.
We have a small website too which you can look at or pop in when you are here.

[mary]

Mary is probably the only true qualified RGN. in any clinic.

There are RGN's but they are in the hospitals not the clinics as far as I know.
Dr Paul is definitley the only British GP registered on the island. There are lots of english speaking doctors here though

[vecino]

Well, I've never had the slightest problem with MAPFRE, who also provide wider cover under their standard policy (dialysis, transplants etc.) than most other companies. Like all of them, they're a multi-national, but no worse or better for that. By the way, best place to go to check who is offering services is their website, as it lists all the up to date details of who you can see under the Salud Familiar plan (you can see anyone in the world if you have their other health policy) and they seem to be expanding rather than contracting their coverage. You can also phone them (and as far as I can recall they do have english-speaking operators at their call centre).
If you haven't had a card, go and see your MAPFRE office and complain. They've always been helpful - certainly as far as I am concerned (and I pay monthly). The number of GP clinics which take their card is more than adequate, and none of the ones I've seen have tried to charge any kind of phoney registration or "initial consultation fee" which is a common way of trying to get money out of unwitting tourists. In the tourist areas, I've never encountered any language problems, if you need to speak english.
The trouble with some of the other big insurers is that they limit the number of times per year you can see a doctor, and the policies are full of small print exclusion clauses which very much limit the scope of your health care (important if - for example - you are under 65 and retired early and not part of the Spanish state system).


Well this is one for mary.
but generaly speaking, if you work here and pay your stamp so to speak.you will have everything on the state, excellent state hospitals.
But can be a looong wait through the state system for referal , to specialists That is the downside, if you think its serious, So i advise private insurance, BUT NOT MAPRE, increasingly they dont seem to be up to much on medical insurance, my man has been told a few places .We dont take mapfre. So he is going to change to the one marys clinic takes.mapre are ok on other insurance car wise so im advised.on this island.They are Mexico based and there website is a bit iffy on the medical side of things here (telling you to check first.that even though it says in there medical book that they take mapfre at certain clinics that they might nOt any more).And even though hes paid through the bank his 3 monthly fee. This time he has not recieved his new medical card.So we have to change now after 5 years of paying into this co.Bit of a nuisance when you are let down like this. But there you go.

[claire1011]

Thank s mary for your info will call in and see you when we are there in October,
Any info on getting residencia in Gran Canaria?
Is there a website we could go to that explains it?
Sorry for all the questions need to know a lot.....
Claire x

[BlonDane]

This is the form you have to fill out if you want to apply for residencia:
http://www.conpapeles.com/formularios/ex16.pdf

[mary]

www.spanishproperyinsight.com (http://www.spanishproperyinsight.com) has a PDF file of a NIE and instrction in english on how to fill it in.(I think)

or try http://www.idealspain.com/Pages/Information/MovingToSpain.htm

It has instructions for your NIE and other stuff

[rosie]

I agree with you Vecino consultation fees just for a chat are rediculas, isnt that bringing greedy britain here to GC. Isnt that what were trying to escape!!!!!!:no:

[vecino]

No, community care though - none at all to speak off for new mums, elderly and in between..

Not the case at all - depends where you live. My mother - who was severely disabled - lived in Vecindario until she died earlier this year and she received excellent support from Social Services via the local council, Santa Lucia. They were about to provide her with free home help at the point when she died. Home help of all kinds was available, from companionship to ironing, shopping to cleaning, making meals to personal care. You need to be on the Padron to access this.
My mother paid privately for some nursing and personal care - 10 euros an hour - for assistance provided by someone local who we got from a list available from the council. The nurse was fully-trained, spoke three languages (including english) and at a point when my mother was very ill, visited her several times during the night for about a week and refused to accept extra payment for her trouble: previously she had worked in Bosnia with the Red Cross, in state hospitals in Italy, in the Hospital Insular and in the Clinica Roca. She also came with us to major hospital appointments and managed everything on the day my mother died. Very different from some of the surly untrained untrustworthy carers my mother got via the council in the towns where she lived for the last decade in England.
My mother also had the community alarm system which is available right across the island, usually at no cost. This is run by the Cruz Roja on behalf of the Gran Canaria Cabildo, and offers services such as calling you to remind you of medical appointments, to take your pills at key times of the day or to just make sure you´re ok.....
Doctors in the state healthcare system - FANTASTIC (my mother could not believe how wonderful it is compared to the UK) - can also prescribe aids such as electric beds as necessary. Otherwise you have to buy aids, as there isn't a loan service.
Even though in the UK she had Attendance Allowance, which she lost when she moved here, the combination of living costs etc. meant that she was better off even paying towards some care. If you have someone living with you who is elderly or disabled, you can also claim substantial tax allowances.

[mary]

That is really good and not something anyone seems to know about down here. I've had various people asking the NHS for help and they've been told there isnt anything and noone can help and the family is expected to do it all.
I am so pleased that your mum's case was successful. I've found it so upsetting that people havent been able to get NHS help. I have gone from clinic to clinic and been referred to by other places as noone seems to be able to get help.
I can only report on my experiences and what other healthcare workers have told me - obviously very wrong in this case.
If you have any contact numbers, I would be delighted to have them.

[vecino]

Spain is currently in the process of passing major legislation - the Ley de Dependencia - which recognises the rights and needs of elderly and disabled people, and which establishes standards of care and access to it across the country. It will be law in the next few months and will revolutionise social care here over the coming years.
More on this in Spanish at http://www.imsersomayores.csic.es/productos/dependencia/documentacion.html

Your best bet would be to go and see Social Services in Mogán and San Bartolomé and find out how they go about things. My guess is that they won´t be quite as developed as Santa Lucia, which is as well-organised as anywhere in Great Britain, has day centres for people with Alzheimers and is about to build a HUGE centre to provide services for people with disabilities.
The community alarm scheme - which is available to people with chronic illness, people with disabilities and the elderly - is accessed through Social Services in each municipality.
While places will generally be available to people with limited means, the Cabildo de Gran Canaria is also significantly increasing the availability of residential care for the elderly. There´s a big new home to be built in Cruce de Sardina (though there have been delays) and the whole of the old Hospital del Pino in Las Palmas is being converted into a residence and day care centre: which is not to say that this is anywhere near enough, and all recognise this.
A major problem in the south of Gran Canaria is that - foolishly - so few foreign residents put themselves on the Padron: this effectively starves local councils of cash that they would otherwise be entitled to from central government for local services, as the statistics of empadronamiento are what determine the amount of finance flowing to them.

[vecino]

Just a couple of other points while we're on this subject (which I got to know well when my mother moved here last year). Sol Mobility (http://www.solmobility.com/) is a useful resource in the South for hire of equipment on a short term basis. There are also two excellent shops in Vecindario (both near the health centre) which can supply aids such as raised toilet seats and so on. Large button amplified phones can be bought in Alcampo and other places, and all hypermarkets sell systems for remote control of switches on lights etc. which just plug in. El Corte Inglés sells those armchairs which both recline and lift you to a standing position. Many big chemists also sell a surprising amount of useful stuff (look for "ortopedia" as part of their services).
If you have aids for people with disabilities and no longer need them, your local Social Services will be very happy to pass them to someone in need.
If you need to renew a disabled car parking badge, you do that through Social Services as well.
The team at Santa Lucia were very helpful in giving guidance about what to pay for private care - which is how my mum came to be paying 10€ an hour. Costs for someone to help with showering, dressing and personal care should be between 7€ and 10€ an hour: my mum paid the top rate as she was getting a fully-qualified nurse. Hope people will find this helpful.

[roxy]

Excellent post vecino, some very useful information there.
Im sure your mum was a lot happier spending her last days in GC than she would have been in the UK, and thanks to you got lots of help too.
Sorry for your loss , but Thank You for the info.

[mary]

Thats really useful information Vecino and explains a little why there is so limited resources in the south. I have been to the centro de salud with Dr Paul to discuss how we can help each other etc and he has visited all the hospitals and ambulance stations to meet the controllers etc.

I can certainly vouch for Solmobility as well - we advise anyone to use them. Excellent, personal service.

So, one of the morals of the story is get yourself on the 'Padron'. It may help you and many others in the future.

[shirley]

Very good info vecino,Im sure a lot of oldies here from uk feel a lot better
now as to what is going to happen to them in the not so distant future,
and are not now thinking that theyd have to scuttle back to the freezing uk, in a few years time. I shall get myself and my man on the padron, Is that the voteing list in the town hall?????if so its just one thing ive thought about, and just never got round to doing yet,I shall make haste with that then this very week.

[vecino]

Yes, that's it. If it's anything like Santa Lucia, you'll need your passport or residence card and a photocopy, plus your deeds (escritura or copia simple) or rental agreement and a photocopy in order to sign up.
It's useful to be on the Padron, because if you decide you want to get pension or other money paid gross from the UK and just pay tax here, you have to fill in the double taxation agreement & Hacienda will almost certainly ask you for a certificado de empadronamiento along with the form before they'll stamp it.
I think there's also another advantage, though I'm not entirely sure how it works.
Once you are on the Padron, as far as I know you are legally entitled to a Canarian Health Service GP and reduced price medicines, even if you are not working and are no longer entitled to UK-funded medical care. This is very useful for early-retired people who are not yet in receipt of a UK state pension (which gives you free healthcare here). Even if you are still paying voluntary NI payments in the UK, the UK will cease to fund your healthcare here after a maximum of two years until you start receiving your pension, assuming you are resident here.
A GP here told me it's the "medico sin recursos" category, but I'm not quite sure how to sign up. Apparently, if you are not in active employment (even if not registered unemployed) you are counted in this category even if you have other income. Hopefully someone here will know more than me about this aspect of things. Much as I'm very happy with my private healthcare, it would be nice to know that I could get medicines at 80% off (the standard prescription here) if I found I needed something expensive before I reach 65. Maybe Mary could ask some of her health service contacts about this.

[shirley]

Thanks vecino,
I do understand that you do have to fill in an E121 form from the overseas pensions department in longbenton newcastle england, To recieve your british state pension here.About 6 months before you are of retirement age. To make sure it comes through on time.
I will go and do this rigmarole at the town hall this week to get on the padron. and report how i got on. I will get some friends at it as well, and my man if i can drag him away from work for half an hour or so.Seems a good thing to me, as lets face nobody knows whats round the corner for them healthwise, and its best to be prepared.

[vecino]

Yes, you're right about the E121 form when it's time to draw your pension, and it's important to remember to do this.
What I was referring to above was coverage in the "black hole" people fall into between the expiry of the E106 - the form you get from the DWP in the UK when you first move here, and which gives you up to two years' health cover based on your NI payments in the UK - and eligibility for the E121.
Obviously, this isn't a problem for most, as they will be working and getting coverage through paying national insurance in Spain. This affects people who take early retirement and move here at - say - 55 on an occupational pension and savings, and who don't work. Technically, health cover runs out after two years, and you have to have private cover until 65, which is ok but expensive. I was given to understand that this was a way of getting at least some state cover in the meantime, which would cover drug costs and seeing a GP (specialist care is more limited under this type of access to the system). This could save people who are on constant medication a good deal of money. I suspect it's also what gives the Canarian Health Service a headache, since they can't claim the cost back from the UK! Any more info appreciated though.
Best of luck at the Ayuntamiento!

[mary]

As Vecino says you need your escritura and residencia to sign onto the padronamiento -or passport and rental agreement. Its like the voters list for the council. Each area is given a certain amount of money per head registered within its area. As Puerto Rico and the south in general has so many people that are transient (tourists and short term workers), they dont sign up and so that area doesnt get paid for their 'head'.
The same applies to the UK too. Tourists towns are sometimes given extra money to cover for the extra people the hospital has to cope with in the tourist season. I have heard to areas in the UK that wont perform an operation on a tourist but would prefer to pay for the ambulance to take them back to their county for the op.
As far as i understand it - the 2 years grace you have is to give you time to get your residencia etc sorted out. After that you should have sorted out your GP etc. Then you can get your prescriptions for less etc etc
One of the problems is that you may not have a rental agreement (renting off friends etc) That is your main bit you need - proof of your place of residence, so they know where the 'head' is. Or you may be living in an illegal site - boat for example. Then you will run into problems.

I need to go to the centro de salud again soon for one of our patients so i'll ask then

[shirley]

Thanks vecino,

So really its best if everyone who has decided to come and live here permanently. and they are at that iffy age . Then they should pay a visit first .To the dept of social security, overseas branch at Longbenton, Newcastle England. To let them know there what they are doing, and to get the required forms to help themselves here with. (If there are any at all,) before they apply for the E121. for there pensions here. Once they become of the age for them, And also on coming here get on the voters list straight away, in there local town halls.And i suppose by getting on the voters list ,also helps our canarian neighbours get better facilities as well in the neighbourhood, Because the more people in the neighbourhood
Then the more money the government will plough into the area, For help socialy for the people of that area.Because we are, by coming into these areas putting a strain on the local facilities, (Whilst not helping)because of not getting on the padron.I stand guilty of that and will put it right a.s.a.p. Now i know it is an important thing to do, To help others in the area as well as myself.

[shirley]

And thanks Mary,
we were posting at the same time.

[vecino]

A
As far as i understand it - the 2 years grace you have is to give you time to get your residencia etc sorted out. After that you should have sorted out your GP etc. Then you can get your prescriptions for less etc etc

I need to go to the centro de salud again soon for one of our patients so i'll ask then

Thanks for doing this. You're right in one sense, though technically the UK can bounce bills back to you after that, I believe.
There is an issue where people have arrived but for whatever reason have not registered within the two-year period - so the key question is what do permanent residents with independent means (i.e. with income from the UK, but not working) do in that situation?

[mary]

This is from www.idealspain.com (http://www.idealspain.com). Still not a direct answer to your query Vecino though.

Social security in Spain as a pensioner
When you move to Spain from another EU country, as a pensioner, you are entitled to be affiliated to the Spanish social security system, without any changes here in Spain.

Before you leave the UK you need to obtain an E121 form from your local social security office. Make sure that the form is duly stamped and signed. This document de-registers you for social security in your home country. The same form is used to register you into the Spanish system. Once you have this document, take it to your local social security office in Spain. You will need to show your passport and your application for residency, plus photocopies of all forms.

Once the E121 has been accepted by the Spanish office, you will normally receive your social security card with 30 days. Once you have this card you should visit your local hospital and register for a local doctor. This is the doctor that you should always visit or will visit you. For pensioners any medication obtained via a prescription, issued by your main doctor is free of charge at the farmacia.

[mary]

Next instalment - from Dept of work and pensions website
Medical services

33. Living (but not working) in another EEA country

If you are going to live, but not work, in another EEA country, you may get healthcare cover from the UK for yourself, and for any members of your family who depend on you and who go with you, under the state scheme of the other country. But this cover will only be for a limited time. How long it lasts will depend on whether you could still get UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if you claimed it. When this period ends, the UK cannot give you any more healthcare cover unless anything in sections 34-37 (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/sa29/index.asp#34) applies to you.
Before you move abroad, ask The Pension Service (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/sa29/introduction.asp#dwp) whether you meet the rules for form E106. Give the following information about yourself and include the same details for your wife or your husband if they also wish to apply for a form in their own right:

your full name and address in the UK;
your address abroad;
your maiden name (if applicable);
your date of birth;
your nationality;
your UK National Insurance number;
the full name and postal address of everyone you have worked for in the last three years;
the date on which you finished, or will finish, work;
the date when you leave the UK; and
whether you are going to find work abroad.When you get forms E106, register the forms by giving it to the authorities who run the sickness insurance scheme in the country where you live (social security offices ). If you have family members who cannot be issued with form E106 in their own right, they may be covered as members of your family on your own form E106, but this is a matter for the authorities there. Ask them if they can include your family members when your form E106 is registered.
If you visit a third EEA country and you need a form EHIC for medical cover (because you did not get one from a UK post office or from www.dh.gov.uk/travellers (http://www.dh.gov.uk/travellers)before you left the UK), get one by writing to The Pension Service (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/sa29/introduction.asp#dwp). If you begin work again, you will need to pay into a sickness insurance scheme so that you can get benefits in the country where you are living.
If you do not meet the rules for form E106 yourself, and cannot be covered as a member of the family of someone who you depend on and live with, you may be able to pay voluntary contributions to the state sickness insurance scheme of the country you move to. This depends on the law of that country. If not, you will have to take out private medical insurance. In most other EEA countries, you must prove that you have adequate healthcare cover before you will get a right of residence.

So it would seem that if you move here with independent means before state pension kicks in, state cover only lasts for the 2 year period.

I'm still on the case though....

[rab_c.]

well having read this thread the reports by vecino and mary also the quips by shirley i have had to vote this 5* this has to be one of the best threads i have come across in a long time as a member of the forum and lots of valuable information there
well done folks

[mary]

http://www.livingspain.co.uk/layoutBody/home.asp?articleID=1089
This answers a few questions too for those 'in the middle people'

[mary]

And from the same site - Livinginspain magazine.

Invalidity benefits

My partner and I are both on long-term invalidity benefits and are keen to move to Spain with our two children. As we are below pension age we cannot use form E-121 and form E-106 is only for 2 years. What happens after this? It also says that we have to pay our pharmaceutical costs - what would this involve, and are prescription certificates from the UK valid in Spain?

Gayil Summers

Dear Gayil

Those on a state pension and some people on invalidity benefits may be able to claim them in Spain. However the operative words here are 'some' and 'may' and anyone thinking of moving to Spain who is reliant on benefits should get advice on health and benefit entitlements from the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK who have an international section and can advise on their particular situation. They're in Newcastle on Tyne and you can call them on 0191 218 7547 (Monday to Friday from 8.00am to 8.00pm). They also have a website www.dwp.gov.uk and if you go into any of the benefits sections they have a living abroad link with general information. More generally, anyone who is not paying into the Spanish Social Security system must obtain the appropriate health insurance cover so that they can get treatment in the event of illness. If you're planning on becoming a resident in Spain and won't be working, health insurance is a requirement of your residency. Medicines prescribed by health service practitioners can be obtained from any pharmacy (farmacia). You will have to pay up to 40% of the cost unless you are a UK or other EEA pensioner, in which case the medicines will be free of charge.

So, from all of that -if you are not paying into the social security here in GC and you have gone over the 2 year limit then you must have private health insurance to cover until you reach pensionable age when you can claim benefits etc again.

[vecino]

Well, that's what I was led to believe until it was suggested a few weeks ago by a state GP here (via someone spanish I know, so I wasn't a party to the conversation) that the way round this is to register as "sin recursos", if you are on the Padron and have residencia. The GP apparently thought it was quite a normal thing to do, and couldn't believe I was going to pay full price for medicines. I can't ask the individual who gave me the info any more about it as they've gone abroad for several months.
I felt a bit uncomfortable about this, as I'm not without income, but you can't pay a voluntary contribution rate into the social security system here, however, the spanish person concerned told me not to be so squeamish.
So there we are. If it's possible to do it, I'd like to know how.

[vecino]

More on this. I've just found the following

"Those persons, of whatever age, who are ‘LEGALLY’ resident, that is to say, those who are registered on the municipal ‘padron’ (census) AND in possession of a resident’s card, and who have NO OTHER SOCIAL SECURITY HEALTH COVER from whatever country, may apply, under the new rule, Circular 1/2002, for a health card which will entitle them to visit a local doctor. However, the scheme only applies to those who have no other type of cover and is not intended to replace a private health policy. The cover entitles consultations with a health service doctor but prescriptions must be paid for in full and only emnergency operations will be covered. Applicants for cover under this scheme should complete the application form available from any of the local social security clinics. The application form should be accompanied by a the applicants N.I.E. number, resident’s card (the application form will not be accepted) and certifcate from the Town Hall showing their inscription on the ‘padron’. A signed declaration, translated into Spanish, from the Social Security department of the applicant’s country of origin stating that the applicant has no other entitlement to cover, is also required."

The source is http://www.torrevieja.com/eng/Channels/OARI_guide/Health_Services.php

My understanding from the conversation I had here over a café con leche was that prescriptions would be covered here in Gran Canaria, and that all you needed was a certificado de empadronamiento and a residence card. I'd like to know more about what I need to say to get the medical card, and who I need to say it to.

[vecino]

And even more on this - though again, not from Gran Canaria.

"If you are a citizen of the EU and you are not a pensioner, self-employed or in paid employment you are entitled to full healthcare under the Spanish State Social Security system.

To apply for a 'Targeta Sanitaria' go to your local main health centre and refer to 'la extension de asistencia sanitaria a demanda segun la Circular 1/2002' You will need:
· Your passport
· A recently issued Empadronamiento certificate
· and you will have to complete an application form "

http://www.ambientjobs.com/healthcare.php

[shirley]

Good work vecino,
I am taking it all in now. So know whats what now. I am working and paying in so im ok, But many others need this good info.

[vecino]

'la extension de asistencia sanitaria a demanda segun la Circular 1/2002'

Reading into this a bit more, I think this Circular applies to the Valencia region, given that healthcare is devolved to autonomous regions - but usually works to national standards. So does anyone know - or is anyone in a position to find out - what we should be quoting here in the Canaries?

[shirley]

seems like we are well covered really. If we work or are pensioners,
Of course there are waiting lists to see specialists on the state here . But its not as bad as england on that. And we also have the private places to go if we are really worried.And now our own british doctor to go and talk to for help as well.To maybe get things sorted in our own laungage, to ease our minds a bit more here should we have health problems.

[shirley]

MY EXPERIENCE IN G.C.
I find the state hospitals more up to date in equipment and competance and cleanliness, than in england.( Even the dinner wagon in the hospital dr negrin, comes up in the lift on its own, the engine underneath it settles it into a bay, and then takes itself back into the lift to go and fetch another one to deliver it to another ward, all on its own) So if the dinner wagon is so high tech like that, (no gossiping so everyones dinner goes cold) you cant say that they are using out of date equipment on the patients themselves. Seeing that dinner wagon gave me confidence, The latest high tech medical equipment in there,definately then, And a plus no cold dinner.What more could you want??
I find the state doctors very good as well (i do use them)
And i would much prefer to be in a state hospital here than one ever in england ever again.
BUT: Being foreign here on illnesses, I feel one of only a number. No matter how nice the state doctors, nurses, specialists are here. you feel alone if you have a permanent medical condition like i have,It is affected at first by the different climate here. (too the good) less medication needed, (Well i didnt know that at the time) And the effects are not easy for you to deal with when you dont know how to go about finding the
right doctor to make sure you are on the right dose of medication,and keep monitored on it.
You just dont have that confidence like you have back in your own country with your own doctor there,and sometimes it is necasery for referal to a specialist.

On the state here the waiting lists although not half as bad as in england,
you still have to wait and suffer the stress waiting can cause and or sometimes the pain as well.When that is really unnecasery. You can have peace of mind here and if not that(depending) you can at least feel cared for and about, and be referred on upwards very quickly to an english speaking specialist. That is if you have a british doctor hereto do it for you.
Unfortunately for me when i came here we did not have one. And i had to trawl around the private hospitals trying to find myself one.
It would have been far easier for me,(and out of my dilemma more quickly
if there had been at that time in my life here.)
Now there is. it was so easy for me(the last time my mind was working overtime on things medicaly speaking)The british doctor at the british medical centre told me that i was ok and nothing needed to be done.(after taking down my medical history first so he knew what he was dealing with to give correct diagnosis on). He said that id be wasting my money having a certain test done unecaserily that i was insisting id like him to do. as his opinion was that i didnt need it done, However as i nagged him he said hed do it then for my peace of mind. Less than a week later it came back negative as he said it would. And i was in peace at last.
I have been to the state canarian specialists here. and in my case the last one didnt speak any english at all and niether did the nurse with him
at vecindario central salud. We got by just about. But from first seeing him and him sending me for an x ray it was four weeks before i got to see him again for the results of that xray (stress all the time worrying)On the same day a friends husband went, Who thinks that he has got an ulcer saw another specialist there, and he speaks spanish, he is still waiting six weeks later in pain to be called in for an endoscopy to see what the problem is,
If you cant pay or dont want to pay YOU WAIT same as in england you feel so alone and just one of a number in pain as you wait.
But it feels so much worse here because you cant always talk about your problem with your doctor or specialist. If they dont speak english.
And why should they all? this is there country after all.
I have even paid private to see a canarian specialist he didnt speak english either. He was good.Its just that i wish that he had spoken english so i could ask him things to make me feel better with at the time.
But now all the hassle is over for me and anybody else. Because there is a british doctor on the island That can put me in touch immediately with an english speaking specialist(if he thinks that it is necasery).
Being a resident and ill as sometimes we all are. We just dont need hassle and worry on top . And we need someone just like back home that we can talk to and feel confident with over our illness.
As a tourist well Locums are here as well(always strangers to us), but a foreign doctor is a stranger to us as well. Who likes and feels confident with a foreign stranger when you are in a vulnerable position and frightened as well?.
Lets face it us english, irish, scottish, are a suspicious lot after all, even more so when one of our relatives is ill, child and so on.
It is so nice to step out of a doctors appointment feeling confident and trust and that all is well. It is nice should you need a specialist to have someone to arrange it all for you and for it to be in your own language. when you feel too ill to have to do it all for yourself and dont even know how to start doing it here.
This is how i feel anyway. I could tell you a horror story about me here. But it is the past now, and the sun is shining. And i have a place i can go now that im happy with, should i need medical attention in the future.

[CSI Fan]

Shirley, you are the foreigner here, not the doctor. Either learn the language or take someone with you who speaks Spanish.
My Spanish isnt up to visiting a doctor here but I take a friend with me who is fluent and I have every confidence in my health service doctor here even though he doesnt speak English.

[debbieduck]

I have to say I do agree with CSI Fan. I think as Brits we can be incredibly lazy when either visiting or living abroad expecting people to cater to us in terms of language and we really ought to at least make an effort to learn Spanish or any other language appropriate to where we are. I'm of the mind set that even if you make an effort with broken Spanish at least it shows willing and some respect for the country you are in. As Shirley does say in her post WHY SHOULD THEY SPEAK ENGLISH?

I can see it from the clinical staffs perspective somwhat as it is the same as here in the UK. I am a Nurse in a London hospital childrens ward and we have a HUGE proportion of patients and families from overseas whose first language is not English, a large number of whom speak little to none and as a health carer it is INCREDIBLY frustrating and could potentially endanger patients if there is that communication problem regarding the explanation of care and treatment, so IT IS difficult for the carers too NOT just the patients!

I would LOVE to be able to work in GC in my profession but would NEVER attempt to do so unless I could FLUENTLY speak Spanish - it is just too important where peoples health is concerned.

Hope this doesn't sound all patronising ( I dont mean it too) it is just I think us Brits could learn a lot from other countries in terms of languages..........:no:

[shirley]

Debbiduck and csi fan,
In no way did i ever mention that i expected the canarians to cater for me in fact quiet the contrary, I do speak some spanish and do my best. In fact i am an employer here. But i only employ canarian people, in the construction industry. My staff mostly come from La aldea san nicolas, and vecindario in fact they speak no english at all. and dont bother trying to, nor would i expect them to. I employ men from here because, They always turn up are very hardworking, Very respectfull, And very decent family persons and peace loving people. I have employed most of them for about 3 and a half years now. I dont pay the canarian rates of pay because id feel too ashamed to, They get a decent rate of pay that i feel comfortable with.In fact they are more like friends than staff to us.I dont take umbrage to your very sharp comments because i can see that you are on the canarians side and i respect you for that.As a person with a short term memory problem i was merely giving an opinion as to how i feel and my experiences medicaly speaking. And how many tourists bother to learn spanish just to come on holiday here? Get ill feel frightened in a strange country that they are not used to?. And how many retirees here
can summon up the brain power to learn spanish? when you are older it is a very different thing and in some cases too difficult to bother. There are all kinds of people, Living here from abroad, and all kinds and ages coming on holiday as tourists as well.I just merely spoke as i found, and as how i feel as well about things. And just like you i am entitled to my opinion as well.And i have to say this i am certainly not lazy (far from it.)The state system here is far superior to britain, I thought i made that very clear,
It depends on your age and how you feel as to how you react under stress and illness, (There but for the grace of god go i)

[shirley]

Some people cant get medical insurance, Myself for one cant, either here or in the uk.If you have certain conditions the answer is NO we will not insure you. I pay my contributions here.And if i want to put my mind at rest. (Very quickly) for less stress for me, I pay myself privately, fortunately i can afford that (at the moment). But who knows in the future? And by getting myself out of stress this way quickly. With help from the british doctor here now in G. C. i reckon i am doing a nice thing for other people here. (ONE LESS ON THE STATE WAITING LISTS) so quicker for less fortunate people here.. But what i have found here . Private specialists are less than half the price that they are in england. And private doctor here a lot cheaper than in england as well. So dont be frightened of the charges here. They are a relief to me compared with england.

[debbieduck]

Shirley

I certainly WAS NOT aiming my comments at you.If you read my post properly I say in there "AS SHIRLEY SAID, WHY SHOULD THEY SPEAK ENGLISH" - I was AGREEING with you!!!!!

I was merely making a general point that in terms of making an effort with languages the British ARE lazy and I'm sorry if you take offence at that but, as you said, that is my opinion. Frankly if you read back your post you do make an awful lot of references to people not speaking English so if either myself or CSI Fan have got the wrong end of the stick can you blame us? My apologies if this is the case.

[shirley]

Debbie duck and csi fan.
MY APOLOGIES TO YOU ALSO; FOR ANY OFFENCE YOU TOOK I DIDNT MEAN ANY EITHER:

[debbieduck]

Thanks Shirley.By the way, I TOTALLY agree with u that the State system in GC is way superior to the UK. As one of the numerous nurses who have lost their jobs due to the crumbling nature and massive debts in the NHS recently I can vouch for that. I work, or should I say WORKED on a childrens unit as Temporary Staff to make up the numbers of nurses lacking and now that the trust I work for has stopped using nurses like myself my poor colleagues who are contracted full time with the hospital are looking after - and I kid you not - an average of 10 patients each on a 12 hour shift. How is this safe for the patients?? The NHS has a lot to learn from other EU states, though I feel that boat has already sailed a LONG time ago.....:sad:

[shirley]

Totaly agree with you debbie duck. And may i say i just dont know how any doctor or nurse puts up with what they have to in england,
My mans sister has done 41 years as a ward sister. At one time in my life i joined up, but not for long.( I couldnt do it id get too involved with the patients) and just could not separate my mind from what i saw (the suffering) we have a partner in business here. His daughter a doctor (in ireland)
dont know the correct handle she has.But she is over monitoring all the doctors in ireland, checking up on them and so on, Qualifications ,especialy the overseas ones. She prefers that job to being on (the shop floor so to speak) Her husband is a childrens oncologist. We know what he goes through in his mind at times,I admire Anyone who can do the job, And i am disgusted at how the government in england treats these worthy people.
Without them where would we all be? Ive never asked yet how they get treated in ireland by the gov there,

[debbieduck]

I'm not sure how different Ireland is either Shirley, but I do suspect its a lot better than here. I feel very sad and disillusioned about the state of the NHS now.I personally went into Nursing with the belief that it was a "JOB FOR LIFE" but it seems not. The NHS was suffering when I first qualified 7 years ago but I NEVER thought it would get to the state its in now.I worry for the safety of the patients I really do.I think we need to question why it is that other EU countries have a way of managing their health services that truly works and we dont.

I also just need to add that when I said before that the State systems are superior in GC/Spain I mean the system NOT the health care workers as I absolutely think the Staff in the UK are highly skilled and dedicated but its the system and poor management that has let them down.

RESPECT TO ALL MY COLLEAGUES OUT THERE............:thankyou: and great respect to your partners sister-WOW 41 years-THAT is dedication.....

[shirley]

completly agree with you once again debbie duck and thankyou on behalf of my sister in law.

[shirley]

PS. she still does two night shifts a week (on a part time basis) after she
has retired at 60 years of age from full time work.I have sat in the same hospital she works at, visiting her own father, and at one time her mother in the afternoons, and noticed all the time sometimes there was NO supposed to be by law qualified staff on the ward, for quite a few hours, and my sister in law told me that happens quite a lot. NO STAFF with the qualifications necasery by law to cover sometimes.The managements are not managing the money properly to pay for the required nurses needed, (there are plenty of jobs )for nurses and upwards, its the managers who have not managed the money available properly, for the safety of the patients, and therefor have no money to employ any more staff.Of course i had my say ,( Well i think im known for that now on here) ha ha (i was so disgusted) but nothing changed. Its the same thing that happened in the 60s in england , there was a big (brain drain )out of the country. Off to australia and places like That.. And who can blame them' NOT ME.! never.

[redswanlady]

As everyone seems to have an opinion on this subject I thought I would voice mine......

My husband had an acute allergic reaction I took him to the British medical clinic he was seen imediately and dealt with promptly with a follow up phone call to check on him, Yes we paid for the treatment and we would pay again to have such a professional and courteous service.

I feel it is unjustified to claim that people are greedy for making a living my husband was seen, had a full medical history taken, treated and registered for less than most would pay for a night out you can choose to go to a private clinic or use the NHS but I know which I will use in the future.

:nodding:

[CSI Fan]

"I feel it is unjustified to claim that people are greedy for making a living" above is quote from Redswanlady.

Where has anyone said anything about being greedy for wanting to earn a living?? I cant see it in this thread.

I'm sure if your husband had gone along to the emergency service at the local emergency clinic then he would have got the same treatment. I visited mine when I had an asthma attack the other Saturday and was seen promptly and spent neigh on 2 hours on a nebulizer, on and off, was also given an injection. I did not leave the place till the doctor was sure I was OK and I had instructions to see my GP on the Monday also emergency medication in case I needed it.
Also it didnt cost me a cent.

People will go and see whichever doctor suits their need at the time. I'm sure Dr. Paul gives very good service (that's all it is a service) but if a major operation is needed or other more specialized treatment is required he will pass you on to the relevant person. Hopefully that person will speak English if he/she doesnt then that is just tough . You are in the Canaries. If you want an English speaking consultant then England would be the place to go.
Yer pays your money , yer takes yer chance.

[redswanlady]

I agree with you Vecino consultation fees just for a chat are rediculas, isnt that bringing greedy britain here to GC. Isnt that what were trying to escape!!!!!!:no:

Maybe just me but the above thread stated about "greedy british" I was simply saying that paying for a full examination, treatment and registration in an enviroment that you are comfortable in was well worth the money.

I fully respect that we all should learn Spanish but there is also a great deal of German's, Danish and Swedish residents/visitors whose second language is English. The British Medical Clinic offers an English doctor on the island surely this is a good thing so people like us who are in the process of learning Spanish can still be treated with the professional care they associate with an English doctor.

[shirley]

I agree with redswan lady,I feel like she does. (But nowhere does it say that you pay for just a consultation.) It goes like this, You feel unwell so you happen to choose an english doctor. The particular one i chose the (british medical clinic) They like to find out your past medical history first so they dont make any mistakes on you, like giving you a script for pills that maybe they shouldnt give you those, (Because another condition you might have ,the pills might not be suitable for you) It wouldnt be ethical for any doctor (not to question you about your medical history first before writing out a prescription for you) If you dont speak spanish and your doctor doesnt, how can these things be sorted out safety wise?? between the two of you, (I realise what you are saying csi fan and in principle i would agree with you,) (You can get everything totaly free. )If you have the necasery paperwork to get it this way. not everybody has when they first come here, And some dont have the medical insurance either, You say tough!! if you are refered to a spanish consultant who doesnt speak english. Well thats just one of the points i made, The british medical clinic (have done a lot of work )finding out english speaking spanish specialists here to send there patients to. (Done all the work for them )so they dont have to do it for themselves, (If thats what they dont want to have to do it for themselves ) If you like, so they dont have to wait, if they dont want to wait, Everybody is entitled to speak of how they find things themselves there experience here medical wise and so on, There are no arguments about all this and niether should there be any at all, Each to us own, Nobody is disputing your own opinion either.You are entitled to yours. Even Mary herself has done a lot of work finding things out for people how to get it all on the state for free here,( if you read all her posts).Shell help anybody do that and has done so on this forum,and will advise anybody on the necasery paperwork needed to be, got filled in and so on so they can be on the state for free,

[mary]

Please guys, dont start arguing about this.
CSi is right in that we offer a service - we are not NHS so you have to pay for that service. We are here to help people who want to use our service. We see all nationalities who prefer to see Dr paul and speak in english. We have seen some people who prefer to see Dr paul who dont speak english and only a little spanish.

Alot of people are very happy with the NHS here but sometimes people get confused and want to confirm that they have understood things correctly. They then bring all their paperwork which Paul reads ands explains anything to them. They are hsppy with this arrangement. Then we refer back to the NHS and so the patient doesnt have to pay anymore than they want to.

Some peole also want to see the doctors we may refer them too, that speak english. They dont always want to be accompanied by someone to translate for them but dont feel their spanish is good enough.

I think is a bit unfair saying we are part of greedy britain. We are offering a service that people are prepared to pay for.

As far as the registration payment goes - the first appointment is always half an hour. Before the problem that the person has come for is discussed, Drpaul will take a full medical and surgical, family history, examine the person and check their urine. Sometimes things then jump our at you that the person may not have thought of - history of heart attacks in the family but never had a cholesterol taken, for example. Also Dr paul is gtting to know the person and how they are or how they like to be talked too and how they react.
Then they can discuss what they actually came in with.
A follow up appointme tis often free if it about the same things or given at a much lower rate as then Dr paul will know the patients more etc.

I'm pleased that we have given redswan a good service that she was happy with our service and thank you to the others who have given us their support.

Nobody is being made to come and see us but it is there if you need it.